A simple life, interlude - the search for the birth

Let’s look at something different now.

We were watching Sister Marie Simon-Pierre and the events in her life related to St. John Paul II’s miracle — if you missed, here’s the first part, and here’s the second.

I said I’d take a look at St. John Paul’s chart. But we have a problem here.

His chart is classified as “A” in the astrodatabank entry. But in fact, the source is not reliable at all.

The time shown in the chart, 17:30, is not, as the entry implies, a date from memory, but the mean between the two times the pope had stated in interviews: the sources relate his statements on the matter were: between 5 and 6 PM, about 5 PM, at 5PM exactly, around 6 PM.

(I’m not getting into the other, more creative options, including one that said he was born exactly during the solar eclipse that happened during the day).

So, we don’t have a chart. But we could try to rectify it. From the two times the native himself gave, which one seems to work best?

I won’t delineate them and try to check which of the options fits my prejudices and memories best; the result will have as much of me in it as of the Pope.

Let’s try to check one or two events in his life and see which of the charts best describe it. I won’t calculate part, except for Fortuna, unless things get too confusing.

If none of them convinces me, I’ll take a look at the time Astrodatabank uses, and see if it works.

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The first chart is this one:

Let’s see how it does, first, for Cardinal Karol Józef Wojtyła’s acenscion to papacy, which happened in October the 16th, 1978.

The profections: it’s an eleventh-house profection, ruled by the Sun, and profected Midheaven is on Natal Sun. Profected Saturn conjuncts natal Pluto, profected Moon and profected Sun are opposed by antiscion, and that’s about it.

The progressions:

As in the last post, these are the positions for his 58th birthday. The motions I’ll mentions are the ones everything here does between this date and his next birthday.

In the secondary progressions, the Moon conjuncts progressed Sun, progressed Venus, natal Moon by antiscion, then natal MC.

Fortuna crosses progressed Ascendant ant then natal IC by antiscion. Nothing more.

Ok, the testimonies may be related to career. But they don’t seem very concinving.

How is the Solar Return?

Again, not bad, but… it doesn’t look like he got to the higher post available in his profession.

We have the Moon conjunct the North Node. Good, the Moon rules the tenth in his natal chart. We have the Sun conjunct the eighth. Bad, but understandable.

We have the MC conjunct natal Jupiter (and, by antiscion, natal 9th ruler, natal Mercury). Good, and related to our subject.

We have Solar Return Mercury (as I said above, natal lord 9) conjunct the seventh house, putting 9th-house matters in evidence.

And we have that Jupiter/Venus conjunction by antiscion, which falls on natal Pluto… Jupiter may mean eclesiastical honours, and Venus is the natal ruler of the first house.

And that’s it. Let take a look at the second option, 6PM.

It’s an eleventh-house profection, again, of course, but here it falls on Virgo — and the profected Ascendant conjuncts Saturn. Nothing much happens, to be honest:

Besides the planet profections, which stay the same (Saturn on Pluto, Moon and Sun opposed), profected Fortuna opposes natal Mars. Profected North Node hits natal eleventh house. Profected Saturn hits natal ninth-house.

The progressions:

Some are the same, of course. The Moon hits progresses Sun and Venus; Fortuna hits progressed Ascendant.

Here, however, they oppose each other by antiscion, too.

Fortuna also opposes Pluto — which, here, is on the natal ninth cusp.

Although the testimonies also seem to make sense… they also seem to be weak. But let’s see what the Solar Return gives us.

Well, here I am a bit more satisfied.

The planetary positions are the same, of course, but the first thing we notice is that Saturn marking the MC. This is not the only thing marking is, by antiscion, Mercury’s right there, too.

The same Mercury is on the natal Descendant.

That SR Jupiter/SR Venus (/Natal Pluto) conjunction is now on the cusp of the ninth house.

A testimony that I didn’t mention in the other Solar Return chart (but it marks the same thing in both of them, I guess) is tha SR MArs is, by antiscion, conjunct Natal Venus/South Node.

To be really, really honest… this second time seems to work a bit better, but I’m not convinced.

What about the chart given in Astrodatabank?

Well…

Profections:

Profected Ascendant is, again on natal Sun (this time, almost exactly)

Profected Saturn is again conjunct Pluto, on natal ninth house by antiscion.

Profected Fortuna is conjunct natal Saturn.

Profected MC is conjunct natal Moon.

And, of course, the same Moon-Sun profection opposition is here.

How are the progressions?

Well, the Moon does all her planetary thing, and falls really, really close to natal MC. Changing this time a few minutes would make it a conjunction.

Fortuna crosses the progressed Ascendant. But she also, by opposition, does what the Moon does, in reverse: natal Moon, progressed Venus by antiscion, progressed Sun. And they also oppose each other here.

Progressed Ascendant and progressed Sun oppose each other.

And the solar return?

Hum…

Mars, RS ruler of the Ascendant, is conjunct the SR Midheaven.

But I said that this Mars was conjunct natal Venus and the South Node, which puts the natal first house ruler also on the SR Midheaven, and puts the nodes on the MC/IC axis.

Saturn and Mercury are again conjunct by antiscion, and again on the SR Descendant.

Jupiter and Venus are again conjunct by antiscion, and again on the ninth cusp

So, it seems that the “Wrong time” is the right time, after all. Or, at least, it’s close.

Let’s see if this chart works, using another event: the Pope’s death.

He died on April the 2nd, 2005: so, before his birthday.

Profections: nothing much to say, it’s a first-house profection. Which only means it’s an important time.

Progressions:

Progressed Midheaven leaves Libra.

Mars separates from an opposition to natal Venus to a conjunction with the natal North Node.

The Moon conjuncts the Ninth house cusp by antiscion, and then conjuncts Pluto.

Fortuna conjuncts progressed North Node, opposes progressed Sun by antiscion, conjuncts progressed Mars, opposes natal Venus, and opposes natal Mercury.

The Solar Return:

Saturn, the ruler of the first, is conjunct the cusp of the sixth house of sickness. Its ruler, the Moon, is conjunct the North Node.

The Moon is also conjunct natal Venus… which rules both houses 1 and 8 in the natla chart and the eith house in the Solar Return.

Natal Moon is conjunct Solar Return IC, the bottom of the chart.

SR Venus is conjunct the natal ninth cusp.

Well, for a 84 year-old sick man, these are testimonies enough.

I have no doubt that the seven key Arabian Parts will make everything here clearer, but this post is long enough as it is. I’ll leave it to the reader, if they want to, to investigate it.

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OK, next we see the miracle in this chart.

My best,

Marcos.

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I have taught a really nice course on the Cosmic Spheres, the Circles, the houses, and stuff like that, and it’s for sale on Gumroad.